ButtaButtaBuildables - A Proposal To Make Buildables Great Again
TL;DR - Make buildable locations permanent, allow buildables to be rebuilt at that location. Possibly remove gold bonus for buildable destruction.
Hey all! Over the weekend I heard sentiments from several new players that buildables add a great dynamic to the game and really help it stand out as unique, which I fully agree with! However, in higher levels of play, buildables suffer from being one-and-done, ignorable, or gold pinatas, to the point that they are hardly used. I've been trying to think of a way to improve buildables to get them out of that hole and be more overall useful, and this is what I came up with.
When a buildable gets placed, two things are constructed. One is a buildable foundation, the second is the buildable itself. These portions still follow the same placement rules as normal, where one can have their buildable destroyed instantly while it's materializing, the foundation still has the same hitbox as the buildable itself, etc. The difference is that while the buildable itself can be destroyed, the buildable foundation cannot.
When a buildable is destroyed, the foundation is permanent. The person who placed the foundation can then come back to it and rebuild their buildable (probably some channeled and interruptable interaction).
With this change, I would either remove or significantly reduce the amount of gold gained from destroying buildables.
I think this could bring buildables back into being a much bigger part of gameplay than they currently are, and could even open up more options in the item shop (reduce channeling speed of rebuilding buildables, etc)! I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this, and how it would need to be balanced. Off the top of my head I can think of a couple issues that would need to be addressed:
- Rawlins and Jarra Traps would probably not function this way, they would remain as they do currently.
- Kyra's Ballista would be even more of a nuisance if it could be rebuilt throughout the round
I really like some of what you're suggesting. Especially if you pair it with Kalo's suggestions about the buffs and having damage also increase buildable damage instead of having to buy buildable damage separate. That way, you're not buying an item that gives you no real return if buildables don't give any money. Though maybe, just lower the amount of money they give if they can be rebuilt (I.E. 50g per destruction and 25g to team rather then 200 and so on). Also, nerfing buildable thorns would still make it really powerful if buildables can be rebuilt. (personally I think thorns is a little too strong anyway though even though it's never bought)
I agree buildables probably need some sort of change, but I'm not sure making them essentially spammable is the right call. Back when characters had two buildables per round, it was hectic. Remove the gold received from destroying them, sure, but that's essentially irrelevant to how chaotic games would be simply because of the sheer amount of things on the map.
I could see a character that has this type of ability in their kit maybe, but I can assure you that more people will complain about a world where Breakaway is a tower defense/castle siege more than competitive players complain now that "my buildable feels useless" which is a sentiment I entirely disagree with.
The foundation is a great idea!
First thing that came to my mind: Let the buildables be rebuild every round. It would add another level of stategy.
Though I see that some buildables would we rather overpowered... (Balancing and stuff^^).
As a whole the 'rebuild' (short channeling/rebuild timer) / less gold gain would be a nice change.
Interesting proposal ButtaButta. We definitely want buildables to feel important and add a dynamic layer to the game, that makes each game different.
However, I do have some concerns that your proposal would lead to too much buildable spam and not give enough strategic reward to destroying buildables. Maybe if we added a gold cost to rebuild in your proposal, it would resolve these issues.
Finding a way to make buildables strong for experience players, but not overburdened for new players is difficult. If other people have ideas to improve buildables let me know.
@zin_ramu Right, I was considering proposing a gold cost to rebuild your buildable as well (and maybe having it increase each time), not sure why that didn't make it in the post as I agree that simply being able to spam rebuild your buildables could be worrisome, or just having 20 buildables on the map later in the game.
A compromise could be that you only get one buildable location per game, but it can be moved each round?
Newer player here... agree with the OPS post comment-wise of buildable's being an addition that can add a lot of depth. Reaching way back as a reference point, some of the most popular mods in Tribes were popular because of the buildable elements and how they were integrated into the CTF game mode.
With that said, I'd personally submit the following questions to the devs:
- Why can't I use my buildable more than once in a given round? Especially if you make it cost something like gold, per the ops comments (just a reasonable amount of gold)
- Why not even have a higher limit for buildables? IE: If I am willing to spend my gold on it, why not let me build 4 walls in one round, instead of one?
The reason I think #2 above can even be viable is for the following 2 reasons:
- If you reduce the health of buildables, then by nature of having them more you create a legitimate meta around buildables (and their destruction). Their value to a team does have proportion to the quantity present
- A higher limit actually allows other strategies to emerge, and creates a more consistently changing map which improves variance in the experience across games (positively)
As a final point of thought, if the devs are concerned about the power level of buildables across characters, you could make the buildable itself an item that can be purchased, regardless of player. Again, this could open strategies.
could we also bring back buildable health but tone it down? i really miss that item.
There should be an item that grants you an extra buildable charge for the round. And bring back buildable buff item!
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