Feedback on this weeks Breakaway Changes (8-19)

  • Amazon Game Studios

    Hey Breakaway Crew,

    This week we implemented a number of changes this week to try to make running with the relic more fun, integrate combat and running, and improve fluidity of combat. A lot of these changes build on each on other, so I decided to release them all at once, but I know it was a lot of change. And with so much change, some things weren’t 100% tuned (damage & stickiness of Argus for instance was too high and will be patched soon).

    I wanted to start a thread to consolidate feedback and ask people what they thought of the changes. What did you like? What did you not like? Any ideas to further improve some the changes we started? Let us know what you think.

    To help organize the conversation here is a summary of the major changes:

    1. RMB to pick up the relic (this also brings with it “Perfect Catch” and the ability to call for passes)
    2. The Relic Shield (team shield that absorbs damage for the relic carrier, relic does not fumble on attacks until shield is broken)
    3. New throw mechanics (throw towards reticule, faster throw, but no charge up)
    4. Relic Wind (on fumbles the relic flies away from the defending teams relay)
    5. Relic throws must land in portal to score, rather than cross through it’s airspace
    6. Buff changes (buffs spawn at 0:30 and 0:45, buff duration only lasts 45 seconds but is much stronger, they respawn 20 seconds after buff wears off)
    7. Combat changes (primaries do more damage, nerf base armor, projectiles faster, melee less slowed when attacking)
      a. Try to ignore the Argus imbalances when discussing this, we know he is doing too much damage and is too sticky

  • Hey Ramu and Breakaway Community,

    I thought i would leave my feedback to this weekend. So, without further hesitation...

    1. The RMB was ok. I think it could be changed to only picking up the ball. The passes were there to help the team move the ball forward and I thought it was a little much to have to click the RMB again to catch the pass.
    2. Relic shield was a little iffy. What I didn't like most about it was being a tank primary, my role is to be in the relic runners face and protect the run game. I didn't feel like i was doing enough to bring the shield down, and when I saw an Damage character go for ball, they could take it out in 2-3 hits. This left them open for more attacks on them and they would go down very quickly (which in turn is relevant to 7...). Tanks were useless in this patch. Kind of frustrated me... :(
    3. A lot of people were used to the relic throwing before. Throwing the relic took a little more skill than it does now. Now, it is a little easier to score the goal from a longer distance. Personally, I think it needs to be set back to what it was before.
    4. Relic wind was a very good idea. I personally liked the idea of the relic getting pushed back from the goal when dropped trying to score. That was a good addition. It allows teams to reset or clear the relic to get an advantage with the running game. I think this should be kept.
    5. The relic throw to land on the portal was a good addition as well. I thought this changed the game to force players to hit the relic on the goal instead of a general area. This should be kept as well.
    6. Buff changes were good. I think the only change to this should be the same output, but same timers. Keep, but change a little.
      And last but not least...
    7. Combat changes: I don't think that the combat should have been changed. It allowed more DPS characters to kill at a faster time frame. The other thing is there didn't allow for very much pealing back to base. I saw myself caught and tailed by many DPS characters and I think the movement while hitting needs to go back to the previous build. Base armor needs to go back up. Damage needs to go back down. DPS characters need to get a nerf to their original numbers (with out items).

    Personally, I was not a big fan of this build. I think that both tank characters as well as healers were not used to their full potential in this build. The thing I felt with this build was that the focus was on mainly fights with DPS characters and seeing who could win in an all out brawl. Plus, I know i keep saying this, but it would also be nice to have the one character per team in the near future. But that is just my two cents...

    See you all on the Rift!!!

  • @zin_ramu

    1. RMB to pick up the relic is awesome. Prevents accidental ball pickup. Feels smoother. Perfect catch feels good when you intercept a pass or a relic toss.

    2. I like the idea of the shield. It eliminates the issue that a lot of people had with the "popcorn" feel of the ball popping out of a runner's hands too often. I would like to see attacks do a base amount of damage to the shield that is unaffected by buying Attack Damage and having one constant shield value through the whole game instead of the shield going up by a certain amount every round. Damage to the relic shield could be treated like environment damage which has it's own set base damage. Just an idea. I would also like to see knockups/launchers cause the relic runner to drop the ball. It feels weird to see someone tossed up with Thorgrim's E and they're still holding the relic. I understand it leaves them at frame disadvantage since they can't move while airborne and when rising, but I still feel that way about launchers not forcing a relic fumble.

    3. I like the new throw mechanics. It feels less clunky to me without having the charge mechanic. I feel like the throw distance is a bit strong. It might be because I'm so used to needing to charge a toss before throwing that far, but my initial feeling is that it can be thrown a bit too far.

    4. I like relic wind. It feels like it is deserved after depleting your opponent's shield.

    5. Requiring the relic to actually go into the portal and not hit the invisible cylinder that the whole giant relay makes feels muuuch better.

    6. I like the buff changes. I like how it essentially makes the whole team have to focus on the relic from the start of the round rather than having split focus over both the relic and the buffs.

    7. So far it seems like tanks are less effective than before with primary attack damage buff and nerfing base armor at the same time. Not sure if it's good or bad, but it feels that way. I'm assuming armor was toned back so that the relic shield wouldn't be too much of an issue with tanks, but I feel like this could be avoided by treating relic shield damage like environment damage. I also think that currently melee needs a higher movement penalty when attacking. I don't necessarily think that the damage buff was such a bad thing yet. I'd like more time to play around with this.

    7a. It's also hard to ignore Argus. I straight up think his issue is just his movement penalty being almost nonexistent when using primary attacks. Again, I'm not sure damage is the real issue.

  • This post is deleted!

    1. RMB to pick up the relic
      This feels goods to me. Picking up and catching the relic seems like something you do now instead of something that happens to your character.

    2. The Relic Shield
      This mechanic is still a little bit weird to me but I don't know how I would fix it or if it needs to be.. The relic shield does help with the chaotic relic fights that happened when people squashed up on the relic. It seems like now with the shield there's a lot smaller time frame in which you can respond to a runner and after you miss that smaller frame they are home free. (Again not saying that it's a bad thing but it's a big difference from the last patch)

    3. New Throw Mechanics
      This is probably my favorite change because it makes throwing the relic feel more like a ball. I don't know how to articulate it but it just feels better to play with.

    4. Relic Wind
      This change is good in conjunction with the shield but feels like it strips away the cool clearing plays that we had in earlier builds. I can see how this is less annoying than having a person slide out of the relay and throw the relic to mid map though so overall this change is good.

    5. Relic Scoring in the Portal
      This change was needed with the new throwing mechanic or else it would be too easy to score. I like how there is an element of precision associated with throwing the relic in the relay now apposed to just flinging it in over the relay. This change is solid.

    6. Buff Changes
      The buff changes make the buff feel useful and not just something you do when you're close to them. It feels like a bigger part of each round and the buffs feel like they do something for your team.

    7. Combat Changes
      These feel a bit over tuned but that's from a handful of hours in the game this weekend. I wish we could have seen these changes come after this bigger patch so we would have had time to familiarize our selves with the new mechanics and then see how we felt about balance as far as damage goes. This changes the game the most in my opinion and is going to take a little bit longer to get used to because it changes the overall pace and flow of the game.

    Minus Argus I think this patch just needs time to marinate but I would like to see this patch with and without the combat changes just so we can feel it out.

  • @zin_ramu

    1. I'll say that relic pickup is a cool dynamic but I feel like it should be an option in the menu. Some people like tanks will probably will want to put it on because he's gonna be trying to fumble the ball more of the time than try to pick it up so it cancels all of your abilities and it can be crucial in a fight. Passing the ball is probably my least favorite change, having to press a button to in say "I'm open" it feels like a chore and half of the time people aren't doing it anyways and it sucks that if you don't press the button the ball is still gonna get passed to you because on the other players screen it give them the option too pass it to whoever... so the ball is just gonna pass itself to the ground as in the other build yeah some people might not be expecting the pass but it passes to them and they catch it so they're like oh okay I have the ball let's move it forward now! This means that perfect passing would be removed but I don't think it was an OMG factor that was game changing.

    2. So this is a huge change and I'm still on the fence about not having it. It's good because it creates another dynamic to the game right but is it needed? The way it was before it was just 1 hit and you fumble the ball but now roughly it's like 2-4 hits so you fumble the ball. I know there's huge consequences when you pick up the relic with 0 shield like the crazy knockback or getting 1 shot but once the game is like this for a while people won't make the mistake of picking up the relic when it's at 0 shield. I personally loved the way it was before because you knew in your head that all it takes is 1 attack from the enemy team and the ball is fumbled! It gave me adrenaline knowing that and made scoring the ball so rewarding when you're 1v3 or 1v2 juking skills and attacks so the implementation of shields takes that away it also could be the relic throw distance because it feels like I could just walk into an enemy base tank 2-3 hits and throw the ball and score easily. Now it's not game breaking for me but the way it is now It isn't very healthy and coordinated teams will score the ball in 5-10 seconds because they can pass well and just tank attacks and score. I wonder if adding a second hit to the old system will make it feel better, so instead of 1 hit it's 2 but the second hit is team wide so we have to use it wisely and it's on a recharge or maybe when you make a power play you unlock the second charge... something I just thought of on the fly

    3. I LOVE the way the new relic feels. It feels like a bowling ball in a way it has a nice weight and throwing the ball feels more natural! I'd love to see this relic feel,throw with the charge up mechanic we had back in the old build but with an added 2s of charge time! It felt so cool to charge the relic from the elevator and launch the ball but it was always a concern cause it didn't feel long enough so either tweaking the old system to make it longer faster or adding an extra 2s to give it that "quarterback touchdown feel to the ball throw"

    4. This was fine but might need to get tweaked with shield changes etc

    5. Love this

    6. Buffs felt good maybe a little too easy to kill.

    7. Overall the damage increase is a bad change and it should be reverted back to what it was!

    Also increasing death timers is bad especially with the increase in damage i was having games with 40-45 deaths on each side. If anything the death timers should've been reduced with all the killing going around.

  • I enjoy the RMB change but think it can negatively affect players with higher ping, had a few instances where someone would tell me after the game "I swear I right clicked, not sure why I didn't grab that". A toggle option between auto pick-up and manual would be really nice IMO.

    The shield mechanic is interesting: I think it adds a good bit of depth that the game needed and will combat popcorning well, but realistically it feels very unpolished. Would love to test more ideas around it like a "tick" system that counts attacks against the carrier as (1) and maybe abilities as 2 or more depending on which it is, and/or even individual shield type things. It's not necessarily a bad direction, but it makes the game feel very "not Breakaway" which I think can be alleviated if done well.

    The new throw is awesome, feels much smoother, however pass speed feels WAY too slow. Sometimes I'll even see my teammate being "followed" by the ball as it's been passed to them for an extended amount of time. I'd recommend increasing its speed to something between what it is now and what it was before.

    Relic wind feels really good. Nothing to be said.

    Same with relic throws, adds a great bit of depth.

    Buff changes are really cool and feel healthier, although I'm really sad gold and iron buff were taken out. I hope to see buff diversity brought back in the future (maybe make gold buff just increase your passive gold generation for the 45 seconds so you don't get such a large immediate chunk in power, seems like it would make sense, as of now it's kind of like if red buff made your next shot instant kill someone). I also really like seeing the buffs on the mini map and the sound indicators for when they spawn, but see no reason why we can't see an actual number above the health bar for really precise destruction.

    I really don't think the attack buff needed to happen. The game felt great post-armor nerf, this additional spike in lethality feels ridiculous across all characters, not just Argus (although he is the primary perpetrator). If these attack buffs are supposed to be a way to combat the shield, the wrong thing was targeted. Make the shield weaker, make it gain less per round, make it regen slower (or in my opinion, make it so it gains health at the same rate, but in chunks, like 20-25, maybe even more, that way you can't just pick up the ball with your shield at 2 health and get free protection from any hit).

    Overall, it's possible this is good for the game, but it's all gonna depend on how the shield is re-balanced.

    1. I remapped it because I wanted my defense and relic dash to still be rmb. I made a macro to continually spam pick-up and catch to simulate the way it was before and it was good, but of course had the same flaws. (Oh and a million hand icons on my screen :P) So I begrudgingly started doing it the 'right' way (but still remapped) and I think I can adapt.

    2. I agree with FlipDup about it feeling weird to knock someone up in the air and not have them fumble the relic.

    3-7 like.

  • I absolutely love these changes that were made in not only preserving the core game play but also adding elements that previously I thought unwanted.

    1. Love the new RMB to pick up the relic, intercepting relic tosses/passes. Perfect Catch is great.
    2. Relic Shield was something I was strongly against at first, however the implementation was put to great use and works well.
    3. New throw mechanic is a nice departure from charge throwing, allows for more fluid ball movement forward or tosses away from your relay/opponents but not too far.
    4. Relic Wind is fantastic, nothing else to say here.
    5. Portal scores are a welcomed change.
    6. Buff Spawns are a very nice way to shake up the stale meta that was early game zerging. More effective buffs add an element of an arena/positioning shift with increased urgency with a much bigger payoff.
    7. Combat Changes actually have to be my favorite change of the entire patch. Before the changes my team and I felt that the tanks were entirely too strong/unkillable and the meta in general was armor/hp equipment heavy with very little room for any sort of team wiping(Look at any of the competitive Road to Gamescom games and you will not see a single team wipe round win). This made the game incredibly stale, seeing most round wins from territory in highly competitive matches. I love the faster projectiles, the damage, the nerf to base armor and(unpopular opinion even though I don't even really play melee characters) the change to melee.

    Overall I couldn't be happier, well done.

  • @zin_ramu said in Feedback on this weeks Breakaway Changes (8-19):

    1. RMB to pick up the relic (this also brings with it “Perfect Catch” and the ability to call for passes)

    Love the RMB to pick up the relic. I'd actually like to see it taken further, making it something that can't be held down, that only lasts 20-40 frames. This change helps raise the skill cap, and can be taken further to further increase the skill cap

    1. The Relic Shield (team shield that absorbs damage for the relic carrier, relic does not fumble on attacks until shield is broken)

    While I like the relic shield, there's a couple small things I would change if we're going to keep it. 1) Make it not stop enemy damage, so if someone with 20hp picks up a full shield relic, they'll die if attacked. 2) I'd like to at least TRY a system of # of hits to stop the relic shield instead of damage. There's several times where I'd prefer to solo queue as a DPS because I felt very handicapped at stopping relic runners as most supports. However, there were many times the relic shield felt the same as the old system when playing against good players who could hit their shots. Also, both teams having no relic shield creates some "dead ball" situations, that I can see being very boring while some teams poke/zone waiting for their shield to recharge.

    1. New throw mechanics (throw towards reticule, faster throw, but no charge up)

    Do not like this, the speed of the throw and the ball makes it pretty simple to get a score from a distance that's just too far from an enemy's relay, it felt like we took some of the skill away from throwing the relic. I'd like to see the old system with more control over the throw, while being able to throw further with a longer charge up

    1. Relic Wind (on fumbles the relic flies away from the defending teams relay)

    Relic wind feels great COUPLED with the relic shield changes. By itself, I'd actually prefer the previous system where the relic fumbles along the direction of an attack.

    1. Relic throws must land in portal to score, rather than cross through it’s airspace

    Fantastic change. Raises the skill cap, makes scoring off a toss harder (aside from the throw changes)

    1. Buff changes (buffs spawn at 0:30 and 0:45, buff duration only lasts 45 seconds but is much stronger, they respawn 20 seconds after buff wears off)

    Another fantastic change, makes each round feel more dynamic and adds a level of depth to the strategy of a round

    1. Combat changes (primaries do more damage, nerf base armor, projectiles faster, melee less slowed when attacking)

    Base armor nerf is great, primaries doing more damage is too much. Didn't feel like projectiles needed to be faster, other than Rawlins' (which should be hitscan or just be single shot, double tap feels awkward). Melee less slowed is ok, maybe just slightly more slow.

  • Hey zin, the dev team and the community here are my thoughts on the changes this week.

    1. overall i like the change it comes with more team play opportunity's and fixes the issue with damage dealers getting passed the ball when they were doing damage.
      2 i think the relic shield is also a welcome improvement i think it definitely needs some tweaks.
      3 LOVE THE THROW but please shorten the distance a little i shouldn't be able to score from below the stairs.
      4 relic wind is great.
      5 scores must land in the portal is great and removes a ton of the cheap tactics.
      6 not sure on buffs yet i think they may be a little too strong.
      7 please change back one of the changes the armor plus the damage was a bit too much. everything else looks great and feels great.

  • [I'm finally on my days off work so i can respond to this on a pc and not mobile]

    • RMB to pick up the relic (this also brings with it “Perfect Catch” and the ability to call for passes)
      I love the RMB change and perfect catch

    • The Relic Shield (team shield that absorbs damage for the relic carrier, relic does not fumble on attacks until shield is broken)
      I have two suggestions

    1: completely remove relic shield
    2: completely overhaul the relic shield.

    Relic Shield suggestions:

    "If your team picks up the Relic while the Relic Shield is at 0%, the carrier will be knocked into the air away from the Relic." Reason: If we're going to keep the damage buffs, armor nerfs, movement speed nerfs, and sliding nerfs. There is no reason to add a damage received penalty for running the ball or trying to move it away. I will say being knocked away is ok because this prevents people from just getting up after getting knocked down and instantly grabbing the ball

    "The Relic Shield is a flat 150." Reason: this gives a level playing field for both teams and will make it more easy and comfortable to play with.

    "As long as the Relic Shield is in effect, the Warrior carrying the Relic can now use the Relic to parry an attack / ability or push an opponent back in exchange for some of their meter. If the carrier does not have meter, they will be unable to use the Relic to parry. The relic shield will also now grant a small damage reduction of 5% or 10% but will lose this when the meter is at 0" Reason: this adds a new dynamic to the game, and makes the potential for more exciting plays rather than having a free get out of jail free card. Where players who can utilize the relic properly can continue running with the ball and helps squishy characters survive / protect themselves so they can't be dog piled and killed.

    • New throw mechanics (throw towards reticule, faster throw, but no charge up)
      love it

    • Relic Wind (on fumbles the relic flies away from the defending teams relay)-
      love it

    • Relic throws must land in portal to score, rather than cross through it’s airspace
      love it

    • Buff changes (buffs spawn at 0:30 and 0:45, buff duration only lasts 45 seconds but is much stronger, they respawn 20 seconds after buff wears off)
      Of no opinion, i never really focus my gameplay around buffs.

    • Combat changes (primaries do more damage, nerf base armor, projectiles faster, melee less slowed when attacking)
      Either drop the combat changes or fix the relic shield, we can't have both. more appropriate explanations on my thread.

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